The 12 Apostates

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Posts by The 12 Apostates

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  21

  Has Anyone ever turned down to be on the Governing Body?

  by Iamallcool in

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  just wondering.

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  The 12 Apostates

  I turned it down, the hours wouldn't have suited me.
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  19

  Is The Person Who Helped You “Get Into The Truth” Still Around?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i helped, unfortunately, many people to become baptized jws.

  recently, over the last few years, i saw many of my students who were still “ in the truth “ lament that i was no longer associating or active in the faith.. i do feel bad that i did such a good job that most of them still are in the cult.. are your teachers still around or did they wise up and leave the lord’s organization?

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  The 12 Apostates

  I was born and raised, both of my parents are still alive. I left the religion in my late teens, about 15 years ago. My parents are still inside
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  12

  How much longer until more people believe the earth is flat?

  by Crazyguy2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how much longer until more people believe the earth is flat then there are jws?

  with these youtube channels using propaganda and the bible i believe over a million people now believe the earth is flat.

  it maybe not much longer.

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  The 12 Apostates

  If the earth were flat then how could hills exist? Checkmate flat-earthers.
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  64

  What Do You Think of Socialism?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you support socialism?

  is it something that you would want in your country?.

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  The 12 Apostates

  I'm sure they're all very wealthy and great examples of why free market capitalism works. At least they would be if free market capitalism even existed, which it doesn't, its just as unstable a concept as hard socialism.

  I'm all for a free market, with safeguards in place which allow all people to work and trade freely of course, in other words not so free as to allow monopolies. I want a mixed economy with a combination of capitalism (if only to avoid upsetting those who fetishise it) and social welfare in place to make sure that those who aren't as fortunate or as well-endowed with business acumen are well taken care of.

  Universal healthcare for instance makes sense in so many ways, here in the UK I would be dead were it not for the NHS, literally. I've had medical issues that would render me poison to insurers, to whom money is more important than life. The fact that Americans spend more money per capita on healthcare than any country with nationalised healthcare discredits their system right out of the gate.
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  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

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  The 12 Apostates

  Well now..
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  64

  What Do You Think of Socialism?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you support socialism?

  is it something that you would want in your country?.

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  The 12 Apostates

  Discussion:

  Socialism bad.

  Social safety nets not so bad.

  Lazy people bad.

  Not all people on welfare are lazy.

  They are too!
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  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

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  The 12 Apostates

  Did L. Ron Hubbard really exist? Probably doesn't matter........what's true is true, what is not is not.
  Be it a scienrology pamphlet or the book of Acts, what matters is what's true in the document, not whether the characters within them existed or not.
  If you could find out with certainty that a man called Ieshua/Jesus existed at that time, in that place, with those teachings..... would it matter at all as to what is true?

  Well yes, but then we'll just end up in a 'does anything really matter' spiral, if we follow that to its conclusion.

  Among the words attributed to Jesus — whether he said them or not — are some brilliant insights, some facile platitudes and some dangerous dogma.

  And of course many of those brilliant insights weren't exactly original.
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  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

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  The 12 Apostates

  I'm not questioning the historicity of anybody. I'm saying that all of your reasons to doubt the reality behind the Jesus of the gospels could equally be said about many other characters from history.
  You said in your OP that your thoughts are 'Based on the limited research I've conducted over the past few days'. I agree it is an interesting topic but I think you should dig a lot deeper.
  The best case for a historical Jesus is probably made by Bart Ehrman. The best and most recent case for a mythical Jesus is made by Richard Carrier.

  No I know you weren't seriously questioning the historicity of anyone. You were suggesting that if we accept that Jesus never existed then perhaps we ought to accept that many others with similarly flimsy supporting evidence never existed. And I would agree actually, perhaps Alexander the Great never existed, I'm open to the possibility. But I don't care so much, because the question of his existence isn't quite the hot topic of Jesus's existence. Do you get me? I wasn't raised by Alexander's witnesses.
  

  On the other hand however, I'm not sure that 'well if Jesus never existed then maybe no one did' (intentional exaggeration btw!) is such a good argument. It doesn't speak to the historicity of Jesus to concede that the historicity of many other historical figures is equally shaky, quite the opposite. It speaks to the limitations of historical scholarship in general.

  I will dig deeper, there's no reason not to. I was simply checking in with where I'm currently at.

  And lastly I have to say it doesn't give me much confidence in the idea of a mythical Jesus to hear that its best proponent is Richard Carrier. Mind you, I don't ultimately have a real horse in the race, as an atheist. Whether Jesus existed or not, he certainly wasn't the messiah.
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  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

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  The 12 Apostates

  It wasn't a tangent I wanted to go down.

  EDIT: Thank you for the recommendation, I will look into his book.
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  51

  Did Jesus exist? Probably not

  by The 12 Apostates in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  threads about this have been made before, but none have been made for a few years.

  i was very much on the fence with this one, i never really cared.

  but i became curious recently, having had a few interactions with street preachers.

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  3. 
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  The 12 Apostates

  No don't start pulling out logical fallacy 101 terms, this was a side issue that I never related to the central point, don't pretend otherwise.

  You can claim that other historical figures may not have existed all you like, but this thread is about our man JC. Perhaps Julius Caesar (the other great JC) never existed, I don't know. There's certainly more evidence that he did though.